Metaphorically and analogy wise: If you think as genes as the holes on a flute, gene expression as the music then environment is what determines "bad" music. But there is no one specific gene that is known or corellated specifically for adhd symptoms.
ADHD is likely genetically caused but the genes are in everyone just expressed in specific environmental circumstances impossible to know for sure in a lab(cause they mostly look at outward behavior in lab settings and fmri blood flow).
But I've been doing meditation(45mins 3-4 days a week) I've also learnt for myself that 30 mins of power naps does wonders for my mind. The medication's effectiveness AND gated on the former two; SNRI, Dopamine reuptake inhibition is like carpet bombing and only makes you ready for rewiring: you still need to rewire with therapeutic and Behavior Therapy techniques.
But I know for a fact that my brain waves are different on days I do meditation and power naps.
I really do want to know if deep brain neural activity detection data can detect bad waves and possibly close the loop by providing corrective waves.
aatd86 1 days ago [-]
From experience, all mental illnesses are related and stem from change in the activation of the dopaminergic circuitry, likely at the nucleus accumbens level.
It can be regulated consciously but only partially. Interoception via meditation.
Alternatively, it can be chemically shutdown/reset, the basic principle of neuroleptics. That is a coarser action though. When things hit the fan. Not nearly as much as the usual recommendations from clinicians.
For ADHD, they prescribe stimulants which make sense if we consider that the brain is searching for triggers of dopamine.
Some other conditions seem to require the opposite but this has a lot of side effects.
I think that in fact, the dopamine modulation require more fine grained handling and this is two sides of a same coin.
monkpit 1 days ago [-]
> From experience
You’ve experienced all mental illnesses?
aatd86 18 hours ago [-]
Not the one that lets you ask this kind of question, apparently. ;)
No but I have had a condition that they don't seem to diagnose properly. Not sure it is a condition for sure but I have felt the brunt and went through the system to try to get it resolved with not much success.
However, the symptoms, that I have explained in details and that they keep minimizing somehow, are plural and overlap with many.
Also you should read the science to understand how they try to address the symptoms (they are still clueless about the causes at the clinical level, not quite sure about private research).
Could also be a bout of havana syndrom, for all I know. It is not dissimilar either.
The brain just processes information via neurotransimission. Brain signals could already be decoded two decades ago.
Who knows what people have invented since...
crab2 9 hours ago [-]
You're paranoid in the wide sense of the word (the one that is plural and overlaps with many other diagnoses). I can tell from the first and last sentence of your post. The last paragraph is definitively a mark of paranoia in the modern meaning of the word. Investigating your own mental health issues through the prism of brain chemistry corresponds to the interpretive aspects that used to be associated with paranoia in the nosographies of yore.
> the symptoms, that I have explained in details and that they keep minimizing somehow
It builds up as a typical "endless blah-blah-blah" that is characterized by distortion of judgment in a way that detaches yourself from yourself and prevents you to even start therapy precisely because your theory is already an attempt at explaining the origin of your issues. It's particularly clear in your case, and the distortion of judgment I mention doesn't concern the validity of your thesis. No, as always in paranoia what's at stake is not the construction you come up with but your ability to connect on the relational plane, starting with yourself. And that's how you end up visiting many shrinks, failing to perceive you're seeking validation for your own self-theory rather than dealing with your issues without afterthoughts (a statement that is particularly cruel coming from my mouth and that I can only soften by saying that I've been there and have done that). Interpretation <-> relationships: first sentence in your post, another instance of this pattern
> Not the one that lets you ask this kind of question, apparently.
This is projection I guess, but please understand that it was warranted since you said
> From experience, all mental illnesses are related and stem from change in the activation of the dopaminergic circuitry
This sounds a bit like bullshit. It doesn't mean that what you articulate is necessarily wrong, but we can tell there is a desire to have authoritative weight in you, which explains why you look for validation rather than therapy (it's the essence of (y)our issue). It's okay. Look at my own post. It's pure projection on my part too. Paranoid, yes.
I am not paranoid.
Those symptoms have cause what could be apparented to psychosis at times, when it spiked up beyond tolerable.
I am not going to expose my full case but when you have correlated neurological symptoms such as abnormal fasciculations and hearing loss in one ear amongst other things, sudden bouts of memory loss and difficulty focusing (which is abnormal for me), adding to this that one's usual hyperphantasia seems weirdly encumbered, all of which is not taken into account nor really appropriately studied... there is an issue.
This is pretty simple and clear. You on the other hand, that you establish a diagnosis off of a mere post is a strange occurence in my opinion. :)
So no. Paranoia never been one of the diagnosis I have had by the way.
Now if you know about neuro transmission, you'd know that information is transported that way. Whether via dopamine or glutamate for instance.
I don't see how being science-based is being plagued with paranoia.
There are people who, given the same symptoms, would believe they are being harassed by demons... Not my case. Occam's razor.
Not quite sure what you are talking about.
Thanks for the "French" song, not my type of music but how would you know that I would understand ;) ?
crab2 8 hours ago [-]
[dead]
mettamage 1 days ago [-]
As someone who meditates and recently fixed his sleep, I can relate
agumonkey 1 days ago [-]
Quite curious how you guys prepare and do your meditation sessions
bitwize 1 days ago [-]
Beginner level: sit in a chair and breathe slowly. Focus on the sensation of your breathing, feeling the air go in and out. If any intrusive thoughts creep in, try to revert back to focusing on your breathing. Meditation looks passive from the outside, but it is a cognitively active process that takes practice to achieve, just like drawing or programming or anything else you want to do. It's the art of placing your attention somewhere and keeping it there, not letting your thoughts carry you away.
iaaan 1 days ago [-]
Tangentially related: recently I've taken to doing a kind of "meditation-like" thing while trying to sleep where I imagine the number 300 visually, and attempt to count down towards zero, decrementing this counter visualization in my mind's eye. For an extra challenge, I try to do this while mentally saying the word "tock", but NOT mentally saying the current number. I find it extremely difficult, which is stimulating enough to keep my mind from wandering to places that tend to keep me awake, but not so stimulating that it prevents me from sleeping.
agumonkey 21 hours ago [-]
I do that for 5-10 minutes, it helps lowering the amount of thoughts at first, then I can reach a slightly calmer state. New thoughts can come and I manage to not drift too long but the calm state suddenly gets boring. I was expecting a feeling of lighter brain state, something that feels reviving but so far i'm stuck at empty but slightly boring.
orphereus 19 hours ago [-]
Isn't the point to get bored?
I'm not even a practicioner or have any deep knowledge about meditation. I am just asking a genuine question.
agumonkey 17 hours ago [-]
At least that wasn't my plan. I'd expect the space made by ignoring chaotic thought to leave room for a new kind of peaceful vibrance. And then if you read some video title claim a form of enlightenment.
thelaxiankey 1 days ago [-]
Just fyi adhd is not considered a categorical disease ATM. This means that it is not necessarily a disease in the same sense that flu or schizophrenia are diseases. It's a disease of excess
D-Machine 1 days ago [-]
> The proposed SoC was extensively validated on two intracranial electroencephalography (iEEG) datasets related to psychiatric disorders, achieving 80.9%/74.8% sensitivity and 74.2%/73.1% specificity on the multi-source interference task (MSIT) and the emotional conflict resolution (ECR) task, respectively. We further evaluated the SoC on the public DEAP dataset for electroencephalography (EEG)-based emotion recognition, achieving 70.5%/72.5% sensitivity and 69.8%/66.3% specificity for the arousal and valence states, respectively. [https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/11685197]
I dunno, really need to see the comparative performance of other classifiers and the base rates in these datasets to know whether these performance metrics are anything we should care about, and whether e.g. a classifier on simple verbal probes to the subjects might simply yield better predictions than going through the EEG signals. You can do some really interesting EEG biofeedback stuff, so maybe this is useful, but I would think the full EEG head-gear would also provide much richer and more useful information than a measurement based on a single chip. Presumably this would be for psychiatric disorders or brain injuries where the core dysfunction we know is limited to a very specific region(s).
AbstractH24 1 days ago [-]
Most of this already exists, and I already have it implanted in my brain
Articles can be weird sometimes in the details they include/omit.
Erem 1 days ago [-]
How has the RNS worked for you? I was a member of the ~4 person research team there for about 5 years and it’s cool beyond belief to see someone using it in the wild on my favorite forum.
AbstractH24 1 days ago [-]
It's been 4 years since I got it, and been quite a journey. I'll do my best to try and answer the question succinctly:
The RNS succeeded as a tool for capturing orders of magnitude more detailed data about how my brain functions and how medication impacts it. It also had some success in reducing the the severity of the fairly infrequent clinical seizure I do have. But, not only did it fail to live up to its promise of getting me off medication, it didn't even prevent me from needing to start taking one that's effective but has some pretty strong side effects (Xcopri).
Titrating onto Xcopri is a long, slow process. I started over the summer, and my doctor could see immediately see the degrees at which subclinical seizure-like activity stopped. Then, as the titration continued and the side effects started to become noticeable, my doctor could see how adjusting my other meds to reduce side effects impacted activity and could do so comfortably with a much finer tooth comb than he would otherwise.
Without the information the RNS provides, I would likely be unable to tolerate the Xcopri and the next step would be another brain surgery (although without the RNS, my epilepsy would appear to be much better controlled than it is. Because I rarely have a clinical seizure.)
So it seems to me that while these implanted devices have real power in their ability to collect data, their ability to reliably alter the brain function is questionable. But that data itself is huge . Hope you keep working in the space!
(glad to answer more questions; feel free to ask or DM me. I'm a bit more informed about this than the average bear)
ddorian43 20 hours ago [-]
Question on what type of epilepsy you have and if you've tried https://charliefoundation.org/ (success depends on type of epilepsy)?
AbstractH24 3 hours ago [-]
The kind of keto needed to actually impact epilepsy is so strict it’s nearly impossible to stick to it and live life. Particularly as an adult.
If you eat an apple you’ve eaten all the carbs you can have in a day.
That said, putting epilepsy aside I clearly function better as a human when I have less carbs. And I’m interested in these wearables coming to market [finally] that track ketones along with blood sugar.
carljungslabtek 1 days ago [-]
Wow that’s awesome to see. Sorry you have epilepsy but what an exciting time for medicine.
AbstractH24 1 days ago [-]
Thanks for the wishes. I'm super lucky for the time I live in and access to cutting-edge medical care.
Other than a slightly worse-than-normal memory, I live a pretty normal life. Most people don't realize even I have epilepsy, let alone a computer in my skull with wires running deep into my brain sending electric pulses.
If I didn't live when I did and where I do (NYC) my life would be very different. And relative to many others, my seizures are not so bad.
throw-qqqqq 1 days ago [-]
Whoah, I’m blown away! Did not know this technology existed. Thanks for sharing, TIL
Why do people think we're going to live forever. We hardly understand anything about the body.
whoanoway 1 days ago [-]
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nextaccountic 1 days ago [-]
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blurbleblurble 13 hours ago [-]
> Our work is based on the growing body of research suggesting that psychiatric disorders arise more from disruptions in communication between brain regions than from dysfunction of any single region
Reductionism falls apart once again and I love it every time. This is very exciting to hear.
HPsquared 2 days ago [-]
This is going to be something in the cookie banners at some point.
hoppp 2 days ago [-]
"identifying cognitive and emotional states"
I have been looking for sources that can list human cognitive states. It's visible when people switch from one state to another, like going from creative focused thinking to conforming group think
I can identify quite a few from the outside when talking to people, but I would love to have a list so I can connect my observations with technical terms.
asgraham 2 days ago [-]
I would be shocked if there’s an agreed upon list, certainly not one supported by neuro recordings. You’re probably well-served by coming up with a good set by your own informal observation.
Those are emotions
.
An example of cognitive state switching as observed on others:
I went to a harbor master to pay for my berth.
1. First state is social, we had a quick chat.
2. Then he went to enter my details into a computer, which is a more focused task oriented state.
3. Then we had a chat again, a more social state.
So there were 2 cognitive states switching, a social, a task oriented and then another social one.
RossBencina 7 hours ago [-]
You could try a search over network switching research, e.g. some consider ADHD a problem with switching between (or concurrent activation of) default mode network and task-focused network. Not sure how many other networks have been identified.
1 days ago [-]
D-Machine 1 days ago [-]
The emotion / cognition distinction is somewhat poor and often breaks down, because you can't really have one without the other (different mental states just involve differing degrees of both, phenomenologically). They aren't really causally separable, but are only really phenemonologically separable (cognition and emotion have different feels / textures, but almost always co-occur).
Most importantly, you rarely have "cognition-free" emotional states, because emotions always involve some mental model or representation of the self / world / self and world, i.e. they involve a cognitive state. Only in very extreme cases (drugs, perhaps some cases of persistent depression, etc) might you be able to have emotions that are largely uncorrelated with any kind of particular cognition.
Likewise, the same is almost certainly true for cognitive states, in that we tend to think about / model things because we need to evaluate those things. Evaluation too seems to rely heavily on emotional processes, in that damage to emotional processing tends to make rational / logical decision-making severely impaired (e.g. Damasio's work in the 90s, or https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2396787/). Regardless, you can't remove evaluation / valuation from most thinking, and that is fundamentally linked to emotion.
Doesn't mean you couldn't potentially build a machine / thing that detects mental states, mind you. But it likely won't be very useful if it is just using simple folk-psychological terminology and concepts (or using such concepts will likely not result in much insights into the machine outputs).
Kim_Bruning 1 days ago [-]
So I was pretty sure I'd looked into some of this before.
I auto-genned an html page really quickly based on my notes and some searching; here's a link to what I managed to pull together. You're asking a pretty specific question, so ymmv, but it might be of use?
You should record yourself & then label the videos based on what state you were in so that you can then verify it w/ an AI if you guessed correctly or not.
1 days ago [-]
siva7 15 hours ago [-]
could this cure emotional distress? i would sign up for this.
AIorNot 1 days ago [-]
[dead]
worldsavior 1 days ago [-]
> increasingly exploring its potential for severe psychiatric illnesses including major depression, post-traumatic stress disorder, and obsessive-compulsive disorder.
I feel like many mental disorders would be fixed by just doing sports. I know some can't do sports, but most people can, and all of these solutions are actually bandaids because of living in the current world environment (where you scroll through social media, etc.)
torben-friis 1 days ago [-]
Would you recommend the same to fix a person's a broken leg or eyesight problem?
worldsavior 1 days ago [-]
Already said "I know some can't do sports." Also didn't say anything about fixing physical health issues.
torben-friis 1 days ago [-]
My point is not ability to do the sport, is that you're taking mental diseases as different from "physical".
The brain is harder for us to understand than a femur, but that doesnt warrant dismissing its malfunctions. Exercise, good sleep and similar stuff is healthy for everyone, but suggesting healing OCD with that is just as ascientifical as suggesting to tough it out for a broken bone.
worldsavior 21 hours ago [-]
Sports activity affect the brain physically, and in my opinion, can help fix mental disorders. Not all disorders, I'm no neurologist, but in my non-scientific experience, sports really help mental illnesses.
For example, if you have depression, doing sports most certainly help you get out of depression. If your body image makes you depressed somewhat, sports fix that. (Put aside cases where people have a burned face or some other irregular case.)
For OCDs, you may get your obsessive thoughts/actions to be replaced by sports activity. You exert energy, you work and it helps.
xandrius 1 days ago [-]
Either you don't do sports either or you are living proof that sports don't fix all mental disorders.
worldsavior 21 hours ago [-]
How did it get personal? You can't understand my take so you lash out. Well, I don't really care so... Good luck?
bitwize 1 days ago [-]
The CTE scandal that rocked high-contact sports like boxing and American football suggests that sports can cause mental disorders.
That said, physical activity, when carefully engaged in, is a great clearing agent for brain fog. Get to the gym, or go for a hike, jog, swim, or bike ride, if nothing else.
taneq 1 days ago [-]
“I feel like many stomach ulcers would be fixed by just doing maths olympiads.”
Metaphorically and analogy wise: If you think as genes as the holes on a flute, gene expression as the music then environment is what determines "bad" music. But there is no one specific gene that is known or corellated specifically for adhd symptoms.
ADHD is likely genetically caused but the genes are in everyone just expressed in specific environmental circumstances impossible to know for sure in a lab(cause they mostly look at outward behavior in lab settings and fmri blood flow).
But I've been doing meditation(45mins 3-4 days a week) I've also learnt for myself that 30 mins of power naps does wonders for my mind. The medication's effectiveness AND gated on the former two; SNRI, Dopamine reuptake inhibition is like carpet bombing and only makes you ready for rewiring: you still need to rewire with therapeutic and Behavior Therapy techniques.
But I know for a fact that my brain waves are different on days I do meditation and power naps.
I really do want to know if deep brain neural activity detection data can detect bad waves and possibly close the loop by providing corrective waves.
Alternatively, it can be chemically shutdown/reset, the basic principle of neuroleptics. That is a coarser action though. When things hit the fan. Not nearly as much as the usual recommendations from clinicians.
For ADHD, they prescribe stimulants which make sense if we consider that the brain is searching for triggers of dopamine.
Some other conditions seem to require the opposite but this has a lot of side effects.
I think that in fact, the dopamine modulation require more fine grained handling and this is two sides of a same coin.
You’ve experienced all mental illnesses?
No but I have had a condition that they don't seem to diagnose properly. Not sure it is a condition for sure but I have felt the brunt and went through the system to try to get it resolved with not much success.
However, the symptoms, that I have explained in details and that they keep minimizing somehow, are plural and overlap with many.
Also you should read the science to understand how they try to address the symptoms (they are still clueless about the causes at the clinical level, not quite sure about private research).
Could also be a bout of havana syndrom, for all I know. It is not dissimilar either. The brain just processes information via neurotransimission. Brain signals could already be decoded two decades ago. Who knows what people have invented since...
> the symptoms, that I have explained in details and that they keep minimizing somehow
It builds up as a typical "endless blah-blah-blah" that is characterized by distortion of judgment in a way that detaches yourself from yourself and prevents you to even start therapy precisely because your theory is already an attempt at explaining the origin of your issues. It's particularly clear in your case, and the distortion of judgment I mention doesn't concern the validity of your thesis. No, as always in paranoia what's at stake is not the construction you come up with but your ability to connect on the relational plane, starting with yourself. And that's how you end up visiting many shrinks, failing to perceive you're seeking validation for your own self-theory rather than dealing with your issues without afterthoughts (a statement that is particularly cruel coming from my mouth and that I can only soften by saying that I've been there and have done that). Interpretation <-> relationships: first sentence in your post, another instance of this pattern
> Not the one that lets you ask this kind of question, apparently.
This is projection I guess, but please understand that it was warranted since you said
> From experience, all mental illnesses are related and stem from change in the activation of the dopaminergic circuitry
This sounds a bit like bullshit. It doesn't mean that what you articulate is necessarily wrong, but we can tell there is a desire to have authoritative weight in you, which explains why you look for validation rather than therapy (it's the essence of (y)our issue). It's okay. Look at my own post. It's pure projection on my part too. Paranoid, yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPD14yRoB5E
This is pretty simple and clear. You on the other hand, that you establish a diagnosis off of a mere post is a strange occurence in my opinion. :)
So no. Paranoia never been one of the diagnosis I have had by the way.
Now if you know about neuro transmission, you'd know that information is transported that way. Whether via dopamine or glutamate for instance.
I don't see how being science-based is being plagued with paranoia. There are people who, given the same symptoms, would believe they are being harassed by demons... Not my case. Occam's razor.
Not quite sure what you are talking about.
Thanks for the "French" song, not my type of music but how would you know that I would understand ;) ?
I'm not even a practicioner or have any deep knowledge about meditation. I am just asking a genuine question.
I dunno, really need to see the comparative performance of other classifiers and the base rates in these datasets to know whether these performance metrics are anything we should care about, and whether e.g. a classifier on simple verbal probes to the subjects might simply yield better predictions than going through the EEG signals. You can do some really interesting EEG biofeedback stuff, so maybe this is useful, but I would think the full EEG head-gear would also provide much richer and more useful information than a measurement based on a single chip. Presumably this would be for psychiatric disorders or brain injuries where the core dysfunction we know is limited to a very specific region(s).
https://www.neuropace.com/
Articles can be weird sometimes in the details they include/omit.
The RNS succeeded as a tool for capturing orders of magnitude more detailed data about how my brain functions and how medication impacts it. It also had some success in reducing the the severity of the fairly infrequent clinical seizure I do have. But, not only did it fail to live up to its promise of getting me off medication, it didn't even prevent me from needing to start taking one that's effective but has some pretty strong side effects (Xcopri).
Titrating onto Xcopri is a long, slow process. I started over the summer, and my doctor could see immediately see the degrees at which subclinical seizure-like activity stopped. Then, as the titration continued and the side effects started to become noticeable, my doctor could see how adjusting my other meds to reduce side effects impacted activity and could do so comfortably with a much finer tooth comb than he would otherwise.
Without the information the RNS provides, I would likely be unable to tolerate the Xcopri and the next step would be another brain surgery (although without the RNS, my epilepsy would appear to be much better controlled than it is. Because I rarely have a clinical seizure.)
So it seems to me that while these implanted devices have real power in their ability to collect data, their ability to reliably alter the brain function is questionable. But that data itself is huge . Hope you keep working in the space!
(glad to answer more questions; feel free to ask or DM me. I'm a bit more informed about this than the average bear)
If you eat an apple you’ve eaten all the carbs you can have in a day.
That said, putting epilepsy aside I clearly function better as a human when I have less carbs. And I’m interested in these wearables coming to market [finally] that track ketones along with blood sugar.
Other than a slightly worse-than-normal memory, I live a pretty normal life. Most people don't realize even I have epilepsy, let alone a computer in my skull with wires running deep into my brain sending electric pulses.
If I didn't live when I did and where I do (NYC) my life would be very different. And relative to many others, my seizures are not so bad.
I would post a link, but the only standalone topic page is on a Fandom site, which counts as doubly morbid.
Great writer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Egan
Reductionism falls apart once again and I love it every time. This is very exciting to hear.
I have been looking for sources that can list human cognitive states. It's visible when people switch from one state to another, like going from creative focused thinking to conforming group think
I can identify quite a few from the outside when talking to people, but I would love to have a list so I can connect my observations with technical terms.
Joy, Trust, Fear, Surprise, Sadness, Disgust, Anger, Anticipation.
A start.
I went to a harbor master to pay for my berth.
1. First state is social, we had a quick chat.
2. Then he went to enter my details into a computer, which is a more focused task oriented state.
3. Then we had a chat again, a more social state.
So there were 2 cognitive states switching, a social, a task oriented and then another social one.
Most importantly, you rarely have "cognition-free" emotional states, because emotions always involve some mental model or representation of the self / world / self and world, i.e. they involve a cognitive state. Only in very extreme cases (drugs, perhaps some cases of persistent depression, etc) might you be able to have emotions that are largely uncorrelated with any kind of particular cognition.
Likewise, the same is almost certainly true for cognitive states, in that we tend to think about / model things because we need to evaluate those things. Evaluation too seems to rely heavily on emotional processes, in that damage to emotional processing tends to make rational / logical decision-making severely impaired (e.g. Damasio's work in the 90s, or https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2396787/). Regardless, you can't remove evaluation / valuation from most thinking, and that is fundamentally linked to emotion.
Doesn't mean you couldn't potentially build a machine / thing that detects mental states, mind you. But it likely won't be very useful if it is just using simple folk-psychological terminology and concepts (or using such concepts will likely not result in much insights into the machine outputs).
https://vps.kimbruning.nl/random/hoppp_reading_list.html
I feel like many mental disorders would be fixed by just doing sports. I know some can't do sports, but most people can, and all of these solutions are actually bandaids because of living in the current world environment (where you scroll through social media, etc.)
The brain is harder for us to understand than a femur, but that doesnt warrant dismissing its malfunctions. Exercise, good sleep and similar stuff is healthy for everyone, but suggesting healing OCD with that is just as ascientifical as suggesting to tough it out for a broken bone.
For example, if you have depression, doing sports most certainly help you get out of depression. If your body image makes you depressed somewhat, sports fix that. (Put aside cases where people have a burned face or some other irregular case.)
For OCDs, you may get your obsessive thoughts/actions to be replaced by sports activity. You exert energy, you work and it helps.
That said, physical activity, when carefully engaged in, is a great clearing agent for brain fog. Get to the gym, or go for a hike, jog, swim, or bike ride, if nothing else.
See how that sounds?