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ggm 22 hours ago [-]
In the old Tsukiji market you walked past wooden boxes of the flakes wafting gently in the breeze and saw people milling them with green enamelled powered industrial bench planes, while cooking gas powered market trolleys trundled around, with curious drum like round control panels shifting frozen tuna sides and boxes of abalone. I've never seen those motorised carts anywhere else.
the stuff we buy in packets here in oz must suffer in transit and packaging, they are shattered fragments but they still waft gently in the steam of a bowl of salmon and rice.
The bonito shavings reminded me of the litter around a wood turners lathe. Waste there, but here the point of the exercise.
I think I've had them served as a garnish on Oden. They dance.
halflife 22 hours ago [-]
I was at a fish ramen place in Tokyo, they had a bonito block with a hand operated shaver, looked like a giant pencil sharpener.
Next to the ramen they would serve the bonito flakes contained in a small net, And suggest to soak for 10 seconds, but no more than 30 because the flavor would be too intense.
icefrog98 16 hours ago [-]
Reading this almost put me in that place. Thank you!
polalavik 8 hours ago [-]
> Waste there, but here the point of the exercise.
tbh reads like AI to me
5 hours ago [-]
cyberclimb 5 hours ago [-]
Felt human to me
mgaunard 10 hours ago [-]
I'm surprised to find out there are actually people who like Oden.
ggm 9 hours ago [-]
I love Oden! I've had oden in JR train stations, and in fancy posh restaurants with copper beaten flat woodfired bowls to cook it in. Its the best! The turnip is the best bit. ('turnip' sui generis)
daveguy 13 hours ago [-]
Love to see an excellent example of writing that no AI could possibly write because it does not have human experiences to provide a unique perspective. Sadly, after they get hoovered up by the AI companies, these words will eventually be laundered through the plagiarism machine.
jiggawatts 10 hours ago [-]
You’re wrong: they have our human experiences! They have them second hand, but they do have them.
I'm allergic to fish (can't eat tuna, salmon, etc.) but I can eat food made with pretty much any type of bonito-based dashi I've ever tried.
Especially Japanese food like nabe, nikujaga, Aomori-style thick niboshi soup base ramen.
Never really understood it.
rprwhite 21 hours ago [-]
By the sound of it, you have a protein allergy. That is, you are allergic to a specific, or set of specific, proteins. When the proteins are denatured, you seem to not be allergic. This can happen at high temperature, low pH, or sometimes through oxidation. There’s a substantial amount of research on this if you want to look it up. But, for it to be particularly constructive, first you would need to determine to which protein you are allergic
amluto 15 hours ago [-]
Or to a protein that is sufficiently insoluble protein that there isn’t much of it in dashi.
One could (but maybe shouldn’t) eat a bonito flake or two as an experiment.
sudo_cowsay 20 hours ago [-]
I have quite a lot of allergies myself. May I ask, isn't all allergies due to the protein?
tux3 19 hours ago [-]
"Proteins" is not one thing, it's a class of many different things made from amino acids. Same as the "peptide" craze you might have heard of, except proteins are bigger.
Antibodies don't have to bind only to proteins, it could be some lipid, carbohydrate, any molecule big enough. Most of the time it's some protein, but it's not an allergy proteins in general.
jyounker 13 hours ago [-]
Basically any chemical structure beyond a certain size can cause an allergy. It doesn't even have to be an organic compund.
8cvor6j844qw_d6 16 hours ago [-]
I wondered if you'd be allergic to Surströmming. I haven't had the privilege to try it yet.
throw-qqqqq 16 hours ago [-]
One man’s privilege; another man’s punishment :D
I absolutely cannot take that smell.
It’s pretty common in Sweden and not too expensive. I bought from ICA last time I tried it.
There are other types of dried fish from different cuisines. Sri Lankan food uses dried tuna very heavily, and some other types of dried fish in particular dishes. Might be worth trying to see whether you react to that.
Do you react to other fish products such as south east Asian fish sauce? Salted and/or fermented fish?
spike021 14 hours ago [-]
Fish sauce has yet to cause any issues for me as well. I even have a bottle that I use for myself when cooking Thai dishes.
aidenn0 10 hours ago [-]
My wife is also allergic to fish.
She can have bonito and fish sauce, and (most strangely) canned tuna. Any fresh fish makes her violently ill. She had to learn the hard way that many restaurants make their tuna salad with fresh tuna.
spike021 10 hours ago [-]
that's interesting! when i was a child I could eat canned tuna as well but sadly no longer.
bell-cot 21 hours ago [-]
> I'm allergic to fish...
I'd guess that your allergy is to some class of proteins in the fish - and that the production steps for dried bonito (and maybe the time required) denature or destroy those proteins.
dskhatri 7 hours ago [-]
Curious why they painstakingly arranged the frozen bonito into the truck, only to then toss them into the water at the destination. Why not just empty the cart into the truck instead of manually transferring the fish one at a time?
Also dried fish dishes. There is a shop near where I live in Britain (and not in a big city) that sells both, and dried shrimp.
aswegs8 21 hours ago [-]
Japan cultivates those oases of mindful living to the point where it feels like art. Beautiful.
christophilus 7 hours ago [-]
I was curious what the paste was. According to Brave search AI (whatever LLM that is): The paste used on dried bonito (known as katsuobushi) is made from the fish’s own head and scrapings (called nakaochi), which are mixed with the fish’s own flesh.
jazdw 16 hours ago [-]
Deboning that many fillets by hand is insane
27183 15 hours ago [-]
Is there another way to do it? I suppose you could sort of fillet them all off in the initial cutting operation but you'd lose a large chunk of meat and it might not actually get them all. Deboning after the boil seems like a Pareto optimal time/ease/waste trade.
jazdw 15 hours ago [-]
I mean I'm sure there are machines that do it, not that I'd expect this factory to use one. More just commenting on how tedious this must be.
mrlonglong 18 hours ago [-]
How did they hit upon this method? Was it an accidental discovery hundreds of years ago or was ot carefully arrived at through thinking how to make this kind of food?
layer8 12 hours ago [-]
Almost certainly it was an incremental discovery process, first cooking and/or fumigating tuna for other consumption, then extending its shelf life by fermentation and/or sun-drying, discovering that evening out the exterior with paste helps extend it, then solving the problem that extended drying leads to hard consistency by shaving off very thin slices, stuff like that. They didn’t set out with “oh we need very thin dried tuna slices for dashi and seasoning” and then invented a whole process for that.
NetMageSCW 12 hours ago [-]
I’m sure someone over smoked a fish and someone desperate tried to eat it. Then it was gradually improved.
mrlonglong 9 hours ago [-]
Meatballs are ubiquitous, every culture has their version. My theory it was invented when we walked out of Africa 60,000 years ago and it went to all the ends of the world. Or maybe we stole it from those who were there before us ...
cryptonector 13 hours ago [-]
TIL. Want. I'm going to buy some for myself. This video brings back memories of amazing restaurants in Japan.
otherayden 20 hours ago [-]
I've never tried dried bonito before but now I'll have to
nkrisc 18 hours ago [-]
It’s very easy to make dashi at home with bonito and kombu (dried kelp). From there you can use it as a base for different soups or to cook with.
There are different kinds of dashi but those are the two ingredients I use since they’re readily available and non-perishable.
27183 15 hours ago [-]
Delicious, buttery fish. Makes excellent sashimi too.
akshayrajeshwar 21 hours ago [-]
Crazy how fish can look like a gem.
meerita 20 hours ago [-]
I really love Dried Bonito. It makes tasty everything.
NetMageSCW 12 hours ago [-]
Some flakes are really good in (dark) miso soup.
yipinwong 13 hours ago [-]
been wondering why that thing is so expensive. Now I dig it.
Geezus_42 16 hours ago [-]
The article fails to define it's subject. Do better.
Jarmsy 15 hours ago [-]
I was a bit put off katsuobushi when I read that because of the tar in the smoking process it can contain carcinogenic benzopyrene
noman-land 14 hours ago [-]
This is true of pretty much all smoked food, isn't it?
avadodin 20 hours ago [-]
The Edo period ended in 1868 so that 1888 shop is not making them like in the Edo period any more than a shop that makes them like in the Edo period since 2017.
Walf 20 hours ago [-]
*1882
Is this supposed to be some insightful criticism? They've been making the same product for 144 years, and managed to retain the technique from an era only 14 years prior. That's an achievement.
If a place started doing the same in 2017, guess what, they could still make it like they did in the Edo period.
Apart from a bit of machinery for lifting, and starting with frozen fish (which they thaw first anyway), it's basically all manual labour, including adjusting the fire temperature.
avadodin 19 hours ago [-]
It was 88 when I read it but anyways yes it is different.
Walf 18 hours ago [-]
So everyone promptly forgot how to make bonito that way because the Edo was over? Or you've studied the intricacies of bonito production by hand, and you can see all the mistakes they're making?
the stuff we buy in packets here in oz must suffer in transit and packaging, they are shattered fragments but they still waft gently in the steam of a bowl of salmon and rice.
The bonito shavings reminded me of the litter around a wood turners lathe. Waste there, but here the point of the exercise.
I think I've had them served as a garnish on Oden. They dance.
Next to the ramen they would serve the bonito flakes contained in a small net, And suggest to soak for 10 seconds, but no more than 30 because the flavor would be too intense.
tbh reads like AI to me
See: https://chatgpt.com/share/6ade575f-61e0-83ec-95c8-3cee48f338...
I'm allergic to fish (can't eat tuna, salmon, etc.) but I can eat food made with pretty much any type of bonito-based dashi I've ever tried.
Especially Japanese food like nabe, nikujaga, Aomori-style thick niboshi soup base ramen.
Never really understood it.
One could (but maybe shouldn’t) eat a bonito flake or two as an experiment.
Antibodies don't have to bind only to proteins, it could be some lipid, carbohydrate, any molecule big enough. Most of the time it's some protein, but it's not an allergy proteins in general.
I absolutely cannot take that smell.
It’s pretty common in Sweden and not too expensive. I bought from ICA last time I tried it.
Plenty of places ship internationally AFAICT
https://swedishgoods.co.uk/shop/ <- this one for instance
Do you react to other fish products such as south east Asian fish sauce? Salted and/or fermented fish?
She can have bonito and fish sauce, and (most strangely) canned tuna. Any fresh fish makes her violently ill. She had to learn the hard way that many restaurants make their tuna salad with fresh tuna.
I'd guess that your allergy is to some class of proteins in the fish - and that the production steps for dried bonito (and maybe the time required) denature or destroy those proteins.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maldives_fish
PS: Still great, BTW
There are different kinds of dashi but those are the two ingredients I use since they’re readily available and non-perishable.
Is this supposed to be some insightful criticism? They've been making the same product for 144 years, and managed to retain the technique from an era only 14 years prior. That's an achievement.
If a place started doing the same in 2017, guess what, they could still make it like they did in the Edo period.
Apart from a bit of machinery for lifting, and starting with frozen fish (which they thaw first anyway), it's basically all manual labour, including adjusting the fire temperature.